Ep. 26 – How I stopped letting my clients run my business and set Boundaries that increased my profit

Jamie Gruol: Welcome back to this episode of a Diary of A Tax Practice Owner. I am back with my fearless co-host, Jessica

Jessica Smith: Hello. I don’t have a fun fraud shirt today, unfortunately, but I am just sporting like a nice yellow color.

Jamie Gruol: bummer. Yeah, well you look beautiful and yellow.

Jessica Smith: Thank you.

Jamie Gruol: I’m Jamie Gruel and we’re founders of workflows or tax pros, and we’re so excited to bring to you guys stories. So our program is based on the work that Jessica does on the ground, and we are often teaching our clients mindset because that is a huge part of being a business owner. I mean, Jess, like honestly, did you, and I know this is true for me too, did you ever see yourself being a business owner when you were starting back in those firms in the early days?

Jessica Smith: No, and one of the reasons why is because I was never really allowed to like, learn the management stuff. And I, you know, when you think about starting your own business, you kind of wanna know like how to actually run a business. Yeah. And I, I never had exposure to that. I was just always a part of the support team.

So really for me it was like a long, like, no way that was gonna be something I’d be doing anytime soon.

Jamie Gruol: And you were actually lucky because you had a dad who was an

Jessica Smith: Mm-hmm.

Jamie Gruol: did he own his own

Jessica Smith: He did. Yeah. He

Jamie Gruol: Yeah.

Jessica Smith: unfortunately, ’cause he is somewhat like your typical socially awkward tax accountant. He had a difficult time working in public accounting. Um, as you know, in like a collaborative environment. It just, I mean, a lot of accountants who are neurodivergent do not make good employees. He was not a good employee, but he’s great.

Great self-employed. Like he has a very successful firm that he has, been running for as long as I’ve been alive. But yeah, he didn’t do well in public accounting.

Jamie Gruol: Uh, interesting. Well, I know when I went in, got my master’s degree, went into healthcare, it, I had visions on my horizon of entrepreneurship. And I, you know, it’s funny ’cause I think a lot of the people that we work with, like when they start their firms, they aren’t actually starting businesses. Like they’re literally creating a job for themselves.

They’re like, I’ve got all these clients who say that they need help and they’re bringing their cousins and their friends and like, my business is growing. And then all of a sudden, like they land with this business, this like six figure, multi six figure business, and they’re thinking about hiring teams.

And like to your point, like a lot of us weren’t ever like trained how to be managers, how to be, uh. CEOs

Jessica Smith: Oh yeah.

Jamie Gruol: cash flow and expenses and like all the things that come with it, as well as like always continuing to grow our education and our ability and our value. Um, but one of the things that comes out of that when you’re like growing, growing, growing, and all of a sudden you’re like, I’ve got 150 clients and I’m trying to do all the things, is that you have to start. your

Jessica Smith: Mm-hmm.

Jamie Gruol: have to start thinking as a business owner, you have to start thinking about boundaries because you probably did a whole lot of things that you can’t sustain for a long period of time. And I think those that do sustain them for a long period of time become the people that are working 80

Jessica Smith: Mm-hmm.

Jamie Gruol: year round, they’re always feeling like they’re drowning.

They’re always feeling like they’re working with the same kind of clients again and again, that don’t value their services. I’m curious to have a conversation with you today about how boundaries kind of came out of your business in the natural progression of that and what having boundaries has done for your business in the long run.

Because I know when we met, five years ago now, if you can believe that we’re just getting younger and more beautiful, I’ll. The Jessica of that time was new, new mom, you know, like mom of two very

Jessica Smith: Mm-hmm.

Jamie Gruol: Um, starting to implement. We’ve talked about it on the podcast before, but you were starting to implement this idea that I don’t have to work long hours, I don’t have to do these things, but that doesn’t happen overnight.

So I really wanna get into today to how you started believing in yourself enough to create boundaries and what those. Like where you learned that it was okay for you to do that. Can you take us back to that and walk us through some of your experiences?

Jessica Smith: Yeah, , I think that a lot of business owners, when you first really get started in trying to embrace business ownership in general full-time, you are in the mindset of. Whatever the client dishes out I have to take because they’re the ones paying the bills. , I can’t ask my clients to change a behavior that I find to not be aligned with how I want to do business because again, they’re the ones paying the bills.

And so it kind of becomes, something that I would say is not like mutually beneficial. I use that a lot in some of the writings that I share with my clients about. Like why I think the way that we work together, there has to be a mutual benefit for us in order for this to actually work.

Right? Um, and a lot of the times when you are first starting out, it’s very easy to have a power imbalance to where you know, your clients are the ones holding the bulk of the power. And when there is a power imbalance, resentment can build up, right?

Jamie Gruol: Oh gosh. The, the statement, the client’s always right. Like, how, how.

Jessica Smith: I, and, and I don’t want this to be taken the wrong way, that you can’t have a focus on like high quality customer service. And yeah, there, I just, I, I believe so much in this mutual respect kind of vision that I have for how I want to work with my clients. Because at the end of the day, if you take the businesses away, we’re still people.

We still have lives. You know, I work with a lot of, a lot of families, really with a lot of moms. Like, it’s just when you peel back the layers, like they, they’re doing this usually to be supportive of their families. And if we kind of look at that from, from that perspective and realize that this doesn’t have to be a resistance.

Kind of relationship. It doesn’t have to be that one person or the other , is in this like demanding, like, do this for me or else kind of environment. And once I really understood what that meant for me and how I felt that, again, this mutual respect that I wanted my clients to have when we worked together, but that could actually be accomplished in a way.

We , I would say like my, my client satisfaction has improved. Tremendously because we’re all now on the same idea of like, Hey, we have this like common goal that we are trying to meet. You know, I get the benefit of you paying me to reach that goal, which of course benefits my family. And you know, my benefit to you is that your goal is met, which of course is going to impact your bottom line, ideally on the amount of money that you take home to take care of your family.

We have a mutual common goal, and I don’t see the need to make it a. A dictatorship, if that makes sense.

Jamie Gruol: Yeah, exactly, and you are the keeper of the knowledge, but the, as service providers, like our responsibility is to the client’s

Jessica Smith: Mm-hmm.

Jamie Gruol: run. Right. And if, if we can’t get them there because we’re, you know, kind of bumping heads of, of what we believe is the expectation of the situation. That’s huge. That’s so huge. So I’m curious, what was it that helped you start getting there? Because I, I’m sure that didn’t happen overnight. Like it had to have been a progression of some sort.

Jessica Smith: It definitely didn’t happen overnight. I think a big thing was starting to listen to my peers who were having the same problems that I were, that I was experiencing, because it’s very easy to feel like you’re the sole soldier, like on the battlefield and like you’re the only one having these problems.

Promise you, you are not. There are. Thousands of other people doing the exact same thing that you are, that are experiencing the same, like maybe areas of friction in your business that you’re experiencing. And once I understood that and I realized that it wasn’t just a me problem and that this, imbalance in some ways can impact multiple different industries and multiple different people and different levels of the business that they’re in.

It actually made it a lot easier to start to seek out, like recommendations from other people, how they were enforcing boundaries, and then kind of taking that and then seeing how can I make those enforcement policies align with my commitment to having a specific type of rapport with my clients. And it took time, but I really just, I had to listen to other people who had already done it.

And I will say. Changing the way that I communicate in many ways from always having to be this like soft, feminine reply, which is very common for a lot of women in professional industries. We are expected to be humble and, and, uh, polite and. Coming from a very nurturing perspective in a lot of capacities.

When I took that kind of out of it and added that at the end, and I really started looking more at like, well, how would a man respond in this situation? And improved my confidence level. I actually got a much better reply from a lot of people and I didn’t have to be rude about it, but I had to be, I was able to be more direct in the capacity of, you know, in the capacity of.

Hey, this is how we need to actually work together. Instead of like, I hope that we can come to some kind of agreement and we can make this work for both of us. It was kind of, you know, it was really being able to stay with confidence. My most successful clients do this with me,

Jamie Gruol: Yes.

Jessica Smith: that was a really big difference in the, , the client is going to, to feed off of my energy if I’m coming to them from this very like.

Can we make this work? They’re, they’re not gonna feel confident in what I’m able to do, and they’re gonna respond with lack of confidence. And so learning to respond with, with a more professional directness was really helpful.

Jamie Gruol: I love that and I think that, you know, the modeling from others is

Jessica Smith: Mm-hmm.

Jamie Gruol: I think we see that in our group a lot, right? The workflows group, like people will come in who maybe haven’t thought in those ways, like they’ve had the blinders on, they’ve been doing the work for the last 3, 5, 10 years, and they just didn’t know there was another way of, of interacting with their clients.

Jessica Smith: Right?

Jamie Gruol: they’re, they’re seeing like, oh, I can do this in another way. I see examples or I see others saying like, you don’t have to think that way anymore. Right? Like they’re giving almost given permission to start thinking

Jessica Smith: Yeah.

Jamie Gruol: and with professionalism and with value. And I know as like a small business owner, and that’s what a lot of you aspire that are listening to serve and people that are, are making, you know, a, have a growing business that’s sustainable for the long haul. We want someone who can step into the professional role for

Jessica Smith: Mm-hmm.

Jamie Gruol: someone to solve our problem. We want someone to save us on taxes and also do it with, thoughtfulness and with compassion and with understanding that we’re busy but we have to respect you as much as you respect us and as that relationship. And so I think that’s such a powerful way of looking at it, is it’s a 50 50 dynamic. I think I’ve shared on here before, but like, uh, I heard the analogy one time like they need to meet you at the

Jessica Smith: Mm-hmm.

Jamie Gruol: Right? And if you’re stepping over that 50 yard line to make it easier, quote marks, if you’re

Jessica Smith: Mm-hmm.

Jamie Gruol: us on the podcast, for them because you feel like you need to. Kind of give them the silver platter to make something happen. In the long run, they’re gonna continue doing that and you’re gonna start stepping further and further over that 50 yard line.

You want clients that are gonna meet you at that 50 yard line, and it’s done from the very start of the relationship. So I would love to talk about. Shifting this conversation a little bit to what does somebody, if somebody like is waking up today and they’re like, oh my gosh, I need better boundaries. I need to start communicating in a different way.

Do you have any tips to them about how they can start kind of weaving this through their communications from this point forward or making that transition to having stronger boundaries with their existing client base?

Jessica Smith: I will say one of the things that helped me to kind of carve out. Like where I wanted to start was scheduling as much of my correspondence as possible. That way my clients did not have the impression that I was available 24 7. They would see the email come through, and I might have sent that email. I don’t do this anymore, but I might have sent the email at midnight, but they don’t receive it until eight 30 or 9:00 AM the next business day.

 I think that was a really powerful process because, as business owners, yeah, we’re not always gonna be able to stick to a very rigid, you know, nine to five or, those of us who are working more than a typical 40 hour work week. It doesn’t always fall into those regular work hours, but we need to be able to.

Create this impression that we do have work hours and that we’re not just available whenever the client needs us. ’cause the more that we reinforce this immediate availability, you know, I see people talk online about like, oh, if someone would just pick the phone up and call me back right away, they would win my business.

I just, I don’t agree with that because most of these, it’s not, and, and a lot of people like, remember the, these are humans at the end of the day, right? I have things that come up. I specifically have different boundaries with not accepting phone calls unless they’re scheduled. not allowing clients to message me or communicate with me on all of those, like significant number of communication channels that I had at one point, like really getting down to, you know, what if I have to take care of the kiddos.

Or what if I’m sick? You know, I am. I have a team that can help to make sure that work doesn’t not get done. But at the same time, like allow me to be a human and sometimes have days where I’m not gonna be available immediately to return your phone call or immediately to answer to your email.

Because at the end of the day, with the work that I do, there aren’t any emergencies. And in order for us to, again, have a respectful relationship. I’m gonna have some days and times I’m just not gonna be available. And the same with you, right? If you are on vacation, I mean, I’ve called clients before and I always ask, is this a good time for, you know, for me to relay this information for you that you requested?

And they said, you know, I had one client that said, oh, you know, I’m actually walking the streets of Vegas right now. I’m like, Hey, no problem. I’m gonna send you an email and then when you get back, we’ll reconnect. And I, I sent her an email. Hey, you know, so sorry to interrupt your time, uh, in Vegas. Have a great time.

Like. Feel free to reach out to me afterwards that you, you just have to, you have to understand like you’re working in a lot of ways with human people and human things come up and a little bit of grace leniency on the expectations of immediate responses or availability 24 7 that’s what I needed and I’m happy I was able to, to eventually get to the point where now it’s less and less the people are expecting me to be available all the time.

Jamie Gruol: I love that. And I think too, like when you’re using systems, the ability to just like feed in these little lines here and there that help reinforce that boundary or reinforce that, uh, foundation of your business, like for example. And we took this from you originally was in the kickoff email, or really the welcome email into your

Jessica Smith: Mm-hmm.

Jamie Gruol: the kickoff email into tax season or any service that you’re offering them. Just a quick blurb about what your

Jessica Smith: Mm-hmm.

Jamie Gruol: are. Reminder, right? Like we work Monday through Thursday. to

Jessica Smith: Right.

Jamie Gruol: you need to reach us, send us a chat in the communicate or in the client portal.

Jessica Smith: Right.

Jamie Gruol: reinforcing what your expectations are with them again and again and again, because people need to see that and hear that.

Another one that I wanted to share that came up when you were sharing kind of the scheduled emails. There are times when you aren’t able to like schedule something, like an

Jessica Smith: Mm-hmm.

Jamie Gruol: go out because you’re working by kind of laying the law or laying the foundation through like your regular communications.

That these are our normal working hours where we will communicate with you directly. But you can also add into that if you are using automations and you do need to use. Those off normal working hours because you have a family is just make a blanket statement

Jessica Smith: Mm-hmm.

Jamie Gruol: some of the templates that just says, like me replying to you at this late hour or at off business hours is because I’m accommodating my needs of my family or something in there to those that regard, and you are not expected to reply to this

Jessica Smith: Mm-hmm.

Jamie Gruol: please. next available time. Right? Like just something to give you the peace of mind that me sending this, taking this action and knowing it’s gonna trigger an automation in the next step that’s gonna go out at 1230 at night. ’cause that’s your available

Jessica Smith: Yep.

Jamie Gruol: time can give you some peace of mind of not being like, well I have to hold all my work until working hours, so these automations won’t go out.

I just want for the woman or man out there, that’s like, ugh. Just know that you can build in those types of values into your communications throughout your automation systems. And we, we do talk about that a lot in the program because there are a lot of people that have feelings if they do have to work off hours and those do go out, they’re like,

Jessica Smith: Mm-hmm.

Jamie Gruol: just. Just letting them know.

Jessica Smith: Yeah.

Jamie Gruol: So I think that’s huge. Well, Jess, I wanna ask what the result has been for you as a business owner by implementing these boundaries. And we’ll close it out there today, but what have you seen the value of standing up for what you want in your business, what the business that you wanna create is, and how has that really benefited you in the long run?

Jessica Smith: You know, I think the biggest thing has been making sure that when I’m going through the discovery process that I am I’m reinforcing kind of those boundaries through different aspects of the re of the discovery process. So I’m hopeful that with the way that I’m doing things, that I’m onboarding my most ideal fit, my most ideal client partner, if we call it that.

And, um, that was again, having to like bake that into all of the parts of how I work with people. I mean, I’m, I’m telling you my, I, I could. I could send a message out to all of my clients today, and if I were to ask them to rate, you know, how they have felt, our, our, their client experience has improved from, you know, the year prior I would get dozens of messages of people who have, who will respond that they’ve, are, are happy with the service.

They, they’re happy with the improvement on, you know, on certain things. But it really did come down to consistently reminding people. This is a collaborative, mutual relationship, and neither of us can really work without the other to reach that common goal. So if you, if you can, you know, look at it from like that, that lens, it’s, it’s gonna help so that we again.

Reach that common goal and are happy with the manner and how we did it. And neither of us feels like there was an imbalance of, you know, power at any point, or, or, you know, one person doesn’t leave the, the engagement feeling yucky, like, oh, that was just an uncomfortable experience for me. So, um, there’s, there’s so many ways boundaries are benefiting me and I’m still continuing to learn how to create work appropriate ones and, and also how to enforce them.

Jamie Gruol: Yeah, so it sounds like better client fit is a big one.

Jessica Smith: big.

Jamie Gruol: Longer relationship with your clients. ’cause there’s that mutual

Jessica Smith: Mm-hmm.

Jamie Gruol: and and better results in the outcomes, right? Like they’re actually doing what you ask them

Jessica Smith: Yeah. Yeah,

Jamie Gruol: which is a nice change of pace.

Jessica Smith: exactly.

Jamie Gruol: Well, Jess, that was fantastic. I appreciate you sharing your experience with boundaries and if you all have any feedback about boundaries or are looking for support in boundaries. Please reach out to Jessica or I we’re on Facebook. We would love to answer any questions you might have. Talk about this further. You can always, uh, reach out to us on, on our

Jessica Smith: Mm-hmm.

Jamie Gruol: and connect with us there. So, uh, Jess, thank you so much for being here today. We will be back for the next episode of Diary of a Tax Practice Owner and stay tuned for more good Juicy Talks.

Talks.