Ep. 15 – Why Tax Pros Are Overworked—and How Tech Can Change That with Jessica Smith

Jamie Gruol: Welcome back to another edition of Diary of a Tax Practice Owner. I’m your host, Jamie Gruol, and I have with me my favorite person in the tax industry, Jessica Smith. Hello. Well, Jess, I think this is going to be a very interesting conversation today because it’s a little different than our standard conversations.

We’re not going to talk systems. We’re not going to talk workflows or operations. What I want to talk about today is the ROI that people see From technology and their practices when it comes to all of the all of the kind of the fluffy stuff, we’ll call it and but it’s the fluffy stuff that’s most important.

So the things I want to focus on today are time freedom that comes from having this. And with that, also the relationship growth that you get to have, the health improvements you get to have, the mental drain reduction that you get to have, so you can be more focused and present in life. And I would love to hear about it from your perspective.

And maybe we can share like some of the stories that we’ve heard from some of our clients as well in the workflows for tax pros community. but I think this is an important conversation that doesn’t get talked about enough because we know this industry is. I mean, there are people literally dying at their keyboards, they’re stressed, they’re working a hellacious number of hours that, that a lot of people let their health go during the three months of the year.

Most people are focused on getting healthy after the first of the year, like unfortunately tax professionals and accountants, like that’s go time for you. And it’s the time when you stop taking care of yourself. You’re not walking as much, you’re at the computer all day. So I would love to hear from you.

In your experience of being in this industry for, you know, over a decade, almost 15 years now, like, isn’t that crazy to think about?

Jessica Smith: say that. Yeah, I don’t

Jamie Gruol: We’re still young and beautiful people.

Jessica Smith: right? Like, yeah, I’ve been in here for 15 years.

Jamie Gruol: But I would love to hear about like what your thoughts are on this and how it’s applied to you and implementing technology into your business so that you can have those things. Cause I know you’ve had some major life changes in the last several years. And I think having that, those systems has allowed for that space.

So share away,

Jessica Smith: Yeah, I think that, I mean, as someone who came into this, like, solo practitioner environment from, know, out of necessity when, you know, COVID hit and I had a new baby, I really don’t think I could have grown or managed the client work the way that I do now with the level of client success and happiness without systems. I mean, Having to remember to send emails seems like the most simple process, when you have like multiple things that could be like summarized in an email, especially, you know, I noticed like in my tax prep process, sometimes several steps get done in the same. 30 minutes. And, you know, I have it set up to where clients receive notifications as certain things kind of move down the pipeline. If I didn’t have a system set up that would allow me to rapid fire those things without my physically remembering send said person, you know, this, filed. If I had to do all that manually, I don’t think my clients would either consider doing business with me because they would, it would be the constant, like, I haven’t heard from you.

I haven’t heard from you. I haven’t heard from you. I really don’t think that I would be in this industry. The way that I am now and serving the clients that I can now without proper systems.

Jamie Gruol: do you think that it would be just the mental toll or do you think like it just like, I mean, cause like I think about that, like I know myself. In my business, like if I didn’t send an email, I would wake up in the middle of the night and be like,

Jessica Smith: Oh

Jamie Gruol: and then I’m like, you know, into my phone and being like, don’t forget to do this tomorrow, you know, like, would it be those kinds of things or is it

Jessica Smith: I,

Jamie Gruol: different than that for you?

Jessica Smith: for me, definitely like, and, and even, and even with the best systems, right, there’s still things, I don’t want to say that fall through the cracks. I’ve adopted different methodologies with my systems, you know, over time, improving them and whatnot. And I will say some of, it’s usually like that client communication piece for me.

Like I have no problem doing the work. I can get the work done. done, nobody bother me, close the door, turn my music on,

Jamie Gruol: Yeah.

Jessica Smith: really focus on what I need to do. I can get all the work done. It’s like literally slitting my throat to send an email to somebody, to remember, to them that I did the work!

Jamie Gruol: Right. Yep.

Jessica Smith: which I know seems crazy to a lot of people, but I’ve known, I’ve known this about myself for many, many years. Doing the work is not the problem. It’s properly telling the people who need to know the work is done that I did it. I’m doing it, but telling the people who need to know that.

Jamie Gruol: Like your team too, right? Like I need to hand this off to Vanessa so that Vanessa can do X, Y, and Z step. And that mental toll is huge.

Jessica Smith: feels really silly to me to have to admit that sometimes, because I think that, you know, from the outside looking in people like, well, what do you mean? Jessica, you look like you have all together. No. No, and, and, and it’s okay to admit that I very poor at communicating when things get done, not about getting the work done, that communication piece, but knowing that about myself also helped me to develop my systems in a way that works really, really well for me. And.

Jamie Gruol: And your client. 

Jessica Smith: Vanessa and I have put together a really good system, you know, a recent change that we tried this year is where I’m actually scheduling a big part of my work, which is why I’m so thrilled about TaxDomes potential new capacity planning tool, because that’s going to like elevate me to a totally different, different level. Efficiency level of efficiency. now we have it. So, you know, there’s always work sometimes that gets done outside of like the regular cycle, right? I can’t always have everything in this perfect little gift wrapped workflow and everything works perfectly. Things sometimes just happen outside that. And Vanessa and I put together a good system where, you know, if people are asking where things are in the process. She can actually see on my calendar, and she can say, I see that Jessica has this on her calendar, it’s scheduled for, you know, Friday the 29th, , she has time blocked off to, you know, go through your matter, you know, it’s that your calendar says, like, who and what I’m doing, doing what I’m doing, and, she’s able to say, you know, you, you, you can expect to hear from someone on or around that date. And of course, you know, when Vanessa and I are meeting, we’re going through that’s been completed and making sure that the communication piece has been sent, hey, we did X, Y, Z, if it’s not, if it’s something that that is outside of the workflow, we make sure these people are getting communicated about the work that’s been, that’s been performed and that has been incredibly helpful. , because again, I just, I just have such a hard time. Having to remember all of the work that I did now, I at least have a way I can go back. I can at least finish my day. Hey, I did all these things today.

Jamie Gruol: Yeah.

Jessica Smith: sometimes a new method or a process that you might have to adopt to make sure

Jamie Gruol: Mm hmm.

Jessica Smith: gets done and the client gets notified. 

Jamie Gruol: Yeah, I love that. And what that does too is I think what I hear is like you’re being more intentional about the work that you’re doing, which is huge. And like you said, like tax don’t want their capacity planning is coming. It’s going to be really awesome. but does that equate to more time freedom for you?

Like, what has that done for you in having these systems? So you can say, These are all the things I need to get done. Here’s how many hours I have to work this week because I need this time for mom life. I need this time for gymnastics, mom life, you know, need this time for family on the weekends, that kind of thing.

Like what has that done for your, your ability to have freedom year round, not even just off season.

Jessica Smith: I sleep better. Um, I’ve

Jamie Gruol: Who doesn’t want that?

Jessica Smith: So I, I’ve, I’ve been utilizing the sleep metrics on my Apple watch. And I, I have always been very vocal about like how little sleep I get. And I measured that based off, you know, a couple of different things. The first thing is like whether or not I dream, um, and I did like some research on it and, you know, having that pattern of dreaming is actually really important.

And then of course getting into that deeper sleep that helps with hormone regulation, all that. I have fewer nights where I feel like critical work has been left undone. Which I think is really important for someone like me who just, my brain doesn’t retain information like that. It’s really weird. I retain information in some capacities really, really well, but it’s like the short term memory.

It’s like, whenever you leave the house and your dog is like, you’ve been gone forever. I think that’s a lot of what I struggle with. Having. The systems in place to know that, hey, this work needed to get done. It was scheduled. It was actually completed that day. If it wasn’t completed that day, we can then move it to another day so that I’m not so that other component is if the work doesn’t get done as intended. at least scheduled for another time period so that it’s not out of sight, out of mind. Cause we thought we already did it, right? We’re, we’re, we’re being really intentional to make sure that work is somewhere where it’s going to be in front of the right person to tackle that at a specific date and time, you know, specific to a deadline and whatnot. And that has helped me in so many ways. I can like actually close my computer at night and not think about all the things I didn’t get done because, are in fact done and you, and you learn to like what your capacity is. So one thing that I’m hoping to do down the line is have Vanessa be the one to help me more with the scheduling of the work that needs to get done. So as you know, the workflow comes through and there’s, you know, work that requires my involvement. That she helps put that, you know, in, in our process on my calendar, and then also be able to communicate with the client, Hey, just want you to know, know, we, we have just this return. Your return is, prep and Jessica’s working on it this date.

So if you, you know, you can expect, uh, next point of contact on around this date, like. A little bit more on that, like proactive side, getting her involved in

Jamie Gruol: Right.

Jessica Smith: process a lot of the breakdown in where I don’t feel good about my work comes down to how often a client or clients in general are asking me like, what is going on? It, it drives me to absolute insanity. And it’s a monster I’ve created myself because I just, Don’t remember to follow up with them. So we’ve, we’ve developed some great systems so that that’s improved pretty dramatically. And, um, again, if I was manually doing all of this, I wouldn’t, I would have quit years ago

Jamie Gruol: Yeah.

Jessica Smith: without even trying.

Cause I mean, we all,

Jamie Gruol: Yeah. Yeah.

Jessica Smith: been kind of crazy for the last couple of years with all the tax law changes. I couldn’t have fit all of this in. And then was still using Google sheets to like manage my workflow.

Jamie Gruol: Right. Absolutely. What about the ability to be more present with your family? Like what is, have they

Jessica Smith: So I I’m very adamant and I know taxdom has a fantastic like firm app. Um, I do have it on my phone, but I don’t have notifications turned on. I did that on purpose because I didn’t want notifications that came in after my designated work hours to like distract me from what I’m doing, but I did want it on there cause I, you know, if, if I have what I consider to be, you know, the downtime. I’ll take a peek at it and I’ll see, is there anything that is like critical that I need to get on the schedule? Right? So the

Jamie Gruol: Right.

Jessica Smith: like needing a response and I make sure that gets on the calendar. That’s really the only reason that I’m using it. I’m trying very hard not to actually do the work or respond to the clients when I’m with my family. So that has really helped a lot. A lot of stuff just happens in the background still, you know, the, as the work is done, because we’ve been intentional with like, when certain pieces of the work are complete, we can trigger some kind of status update to the client and again, just get that communication piece out there. So that helps a lot. , yeah. I spend fewer hours managing client communications than I was six months ago., and for me, like emails and messages, the different channels in which clients communicate with me has just always been a source of extreme overwhelm. Like it just, if I have, I’m the kind of person, if I have notification buttons, like on my phone. Like, I have to clear them. My husband, on the other hand, he’s got like 25, 000 unread emails and he does it to spite me, he says. So, he’s like, I know it drives you crazy, , but I, I, feel like those things need to be And now, like, I wake up and I don’t have 50 emails that have to be answered, right?

I maybe have 10. I’m not like, Oh my God, how am I going to get 50 emails? It’s just, it’s, it’s just all over. Like it’s all over

Jamie Gruol: Yeah. So when you talk about the channels, you went from, clients, probably a lot of people listening are experiencing this where they’re messaging you on Textome or not, excuse me, they’re messaging you on Facebook because that’s where they met you and they’re sending you texts and they’re calling and they’re doing all these things.

So what is the, are the channels that you allow clients to communicate with you on?

Jessica Smith: right now we’ve moved away from email as much as possible. The goal is entirely within the TaxDome platform. So we’re actually going to remove a lot of the email communications just because there’s new features now in tax dome that make it more possible to actually like eliminate the need for the email and people weren’t responding very well to email anyway.

So we’re going to change that and move more towards the chat feature., I think it was two years ago that I started blocking clients from calling me and texting me on my personal cell phone in my work line., and I have had people say that they think that’s, that is extreme, but honestly, I don’t get the random W 2 in the middle of the night. You can’t expect clients to, they’re going to work when they need to work, right? It’s kind of like how we have the systems in place to schedule emails and to schedule certain things. I do make use of those things because, yeah, while I, while I don’t want to always work evenings or weekends, sometimes if I’m like, hey, I, well, I mean, if I, if I want to clear a Friday, I might

Jamie Gruol: exactly.

Jessica Smith: you know, do a little bit here and there in the evening to clear, to clear day for myself. And, you know, I do so in a way that. I try to schedule as much as possible so that these clients aren’t getting notifications to know that I’m working at like, you know, 10 o’clock at night.

Jamie Gruol: Right.

Jessica Smith: But I think a lot of that has just been my own, establishment of boundaries. clients from my phone and from texting me has helped tremendously.

Jamie Gruol: Yeah.

Jessica Smith: can’t block people on Facebook because, obviously, that’s, I can’t just block messages. I would have to block them completely, which I think people would take offense to. when I have people who message me through Facebook Messenger, I will just copy their message and say, moving your message here to TaxDome, because this is where we need to communicate these. it’s very sensitive topics

Jamie Gruol: Right. Right. Right. Right. Exactly.

Jessica Smith: a bad thing., it’s important for me to make sure that they understand that this isn’t going to be the right channel for like what you’re trying to ask of me. And if we can get them into the channels that have the and the, the different, you know, team member set of eyes on it, then ideally that client’s going to get served and their needs are going to get met. so I’m going to get met and that was more important to me than worrying about whether or not they felt blocking a client from calling me was rude.

Like if they want to call me, if they want to call me, they have to schedule it. I don’t, that was the other thing people think might be too harsh. I don’t take unscheduled phone calls. There’s so many reasons why, but I would say my top reasons are I absolutely should be 100 percent present for that phone call.

And if you just call me out of the blue and I’m knee deep in something else, I have to stop what I’m doing. Figure out what specific need or concern is. Go into all of like the past stuff that we’ve discussed to see has this already been addressed or how we talked about this before or like what else might impact this. Provide the response. And I mean, it’s just like, you’re going to get junk service that way. And at least scheduling a call, I can say, you know, what’s the reason for your call? They can give me a couple of questions ahead of time. I can do research if necessary, and I can have, I can be ready and present for that meeting without it feeling like just kind of half assed the, the communication, and also just like knowing that if a call is going to come through that I’m. expecting it. What if I want to go, you know, to have lunch with a friend? Like I, if I’m, if I’m taking unexpected calls, am I going to interrupt the lunch with my friend? Cause like, Oh my gosh, your client’s calling me. I got to take it right now. No, they can, they can schedule the call and then we can all be present and mindful of what needs to be accomplished in that time period. then if the client doesn’t have. The, if they’re not engaged for a package and that call has to be paid, then I can discuss that with them upfront. I’m not just like giving away free, you know, free advice a lot of ways without, you know, without an engagement letter, without payment in some cases. So it just, it just kind of like fixes a lot of, like a lot of things. Right,

Jamie Gruol: think the other thing you mentioned before too was the fact that you’re not missing out on important information for your returns and or the services that you’re providing because you’re not having to go and check all these other places other channels where information is coming into you and you’re not spending your precious time manually moving things over all the time like obviously there’s those clients that you know sneak through occasionally but you can then set the boundary with them and be like expectation is that we use the portal please make sure you do it in the future i will move this over there in the future.

And then if they are repeat offenders, then you can, you know, hold the line a little harder if you have to, and then, you know, go from there. But, I think the peace of mind that comes from all of this is the key to what I wanted to talk about today, because when you have the ability to identify what work needs to be done, you have the ability to know that all of your communications and interactions with your clients are in one place.

That peace of mind is huge

so can you, we’ll kind of start wrapping up here because I think that I just wanted to make sure that People understood that the systems that in place bring so much more than just efficiency and production and revenue. I mean, those are really important parts of the ROI of investment into technology, but it’s this peace of mind piece is so huge.

Are there any bits of advice that you would give to anyone that’s in the early stages of implementing technology that maybe is feeling a little hesitant that you would share with them to help them understand that this comes from the journey of Continuing to set your boundaries and continuing to see more as possible for you in that peace of mind arena, that you would share with them today.

Jessica Smith: I will say the first thing is it’s not an all or nothing You don’t have to go in a hundred and ten percent with technology, you know It doesn’t have to be the most advanced system available You know We have a lot of members in our program who come in and are like I really just want to dip my toes in a tax dome By all means, just keep your toes because if I say, Nope, it’s all or nothing, they’re going to be unhappy because they have system that’s created with, you know, advanced conditions and, and, and it’s going to be too much for them to manage because they just don’t fully grasp all that is necessary for those advanced functions. so, yeah, it’s not an all or nothing. You can definitely start slow. I think the most critical thing is we really need to look at what parts of your process. there exposure? I think that’s a good place to start. So when, when I’m consulting with a firm, the first thing that I’m looking at, how are you getting paid and how are your clients signing the necessary forms to actually like establish the working relationship with you? And if those are the only two pieces that you can implement a technological component to upfront deposits for work performs just like a lot of people, you know, retainers if necessary, gathering engagement letters, signatures in mass. I think those are incredibly critical pieces that should be looked at first, because if you aren’t taking the steps necessary to establish the boundaries, to establish the legal components, to make sure you’re getting paid for all the work you’re going to do. Then it almost doesn’t matter what technological pieces you do after that, because the down to its core, you’re not doing what’s going to save your ass, right? Like several years potentially down the line and technology is supposed to be here to help really more than hinder. And I just firmly believe that you can focus on those components, slowly adding Something new every single year doesn’t have to feel overwhelming. Next

Jamie Gruol: Yeah.

Jessica Smith: add an electronic organizer. The next year offer video conference reviews, you know, you, or you could do two at a time. It doesn’t have to be again, literally the most advanced setup or

Jamie Gruol: Right. Right. Absolutely. Absolutely. And yeah, to your point, it’s meant to bring peace of mind. So just look at it as, as the solution to that and improving so many different aspects of your life in addition to your business. And it will, it will be worth it in the end. Absolutely worth it. Well, Jessica, thank you so much for sharing with us today.

We appreciate you being here and

Jessica Smith: Bye.

Jamie Gruol: and we hope that you will join us for the next episode of diary of a tax practice owner, and we look forward to seeing you then. Bye