Ep.25 – How to Build a Virtual Tax Practice that Gives You Freedom (even during Tax Season)

Jamie Gruol: Hello and welcome back to another diary of tax practice owner. I have my co host Jessica Smith back with me again today and I am Jamie Gruol. Thank you for being here with us, Jess. So excited to have you back.

Jessica Smith: Thank you for having me, as always. 

Jamie Gruol: Yes. All right. So let’s talk about your t shirt, which t shirt are you rocking today?

Jessica Smith: feel so silly, but I love you. This is I Love Tax Evasion, and this is, it looks just like the I Love New York

Jamie Gruol: Yes.

Jessica Smith: Style, and it’s a lot of fun, and it’s a great conversation piece, and I have some ideas for what I’m going to use all these fun little punny shirts for, as I call them for some content here in the future, so stay tuned for that.

Bye. Bye. Bye.

Jamie Gruol: You will find some good stuff coming up. It sounds like, well, Jess, we’re back today and people are in the midst of tax season. , they’re starting to like get into the season where they’re thinking of change. They’re thinking of, I need to make things better. And we have, we’re in this like interesting position in the industry right now where. A lot of people have started moving into more virtual tech supported practices that are using practice management softwares like Taxdome, which we know and

Jessica Smith: hmm.

Jamie Gruol: But there’s still a lot, a lot of practices out there where people are working inefficiently.

They’re still very manually focused. Even people using Taxdome,

Jessica Smith: Mm hmm.

Jamie Gruol: There’s a lot of people that use Taxdome as a glorified. Client portal.

Jessica Smith: Yeah.

Jamie Gruol: just upload documents, they get some e signatures, but everything else is still manual. So I want to talk to you today. If you are, you’re like, Oh God, I feel called out. This is going to be a great conversation because Justin and I really want to help you see what’s possible, why these systems are really causing you to one be inefficient. They’re gobbling up your profit

Jessica Smith: Mm hmm.

Jamie Gruol: a team member and you have manual processes, that, process costs you a lot more than tax dome costs you, I promise.

Jessica Smith: Yes.

Jamie Gruol: And it’s, it’s much less reliable than tax dome as well. And it’s also causing you to have a lot less time freedom. Now, inefficiency in practices, you know, we’ve talked about it so many times in this podcast, but People have this idea that as a tax professional, as an accountant, you got to have a high volume team

Jessica Smith: Mm hmm.

Jamie Gruol: not high volume team, but a large number of team members to manage the processes that are often high touch, which a lot of times not high value.

They’re, you know, they’re working for not a lot of profit in, in their firms. And, and, I want to talk today about how this inefficiency is really cause of it

Jessica Smith: Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Mm

Jamie Gruol: of technology. And what that cost is to people. So I would love because you’ve been through it all. Like you started your practice you were like, Oh no, this is going to be run on systems.

It’s gonna, you know, we’ve talked about that story before. What was it? the practice, the experience you had prior that really helped you be like, nope, I’m going to invest in systems. I’m going to figure these systems out. I’m going to do the hard work and it is hard work and I don’t want to scare you away if you’re still like not using technology, but you have to invest the time and energy into learning this new way. But you did that, Jess. today you’re working, part time hours. I won’t say part time hours, less than

Jessica Smith: hmm.

Jamie Gruol: a week, but you take Fridays off. You’re with your family. You can go on vacation in the middle of tax season for your birthday. Like, there’s so many things that you have that other people want that are still rocking the manual world.

So what was it from your previous experience that said, Nope, not going to do

Jessica Smith: Yeah. So, you know, the, I, I worked for a firm that gosh, I think at one point we had 20 to 25 employees and quite a few of those were senior level attorneys.

Every attorney had their own style for how they wanted the work done, which was awful. So when you’re, when. Yeah, I was, and I was for the very, for a very long time, one of the only support people that was doing, that was allowed to do certain parts of the work in the firm. And so, you know, I had to be malleable and I had to be able to come in and be like, okay, well for this attorney, I have to do it this way.

And then for this attorney, they Same result, but different process. And so that was really, really hard. When you don’t have at least like a standard, a baseline standard for how things are supposed to be done, how they’re supposed to be documented, you know, whatever that is, if I wasn’t there, it was , really difficult for someone to come in, pick up where I left off and keep things going where they need to go, which is, I think a very like overlooked component of why having like standard operating procedures.

Are so important. It’s not just because you’re always going to grow a big team. You know, the IRS is trying to revamp circ 230 right now. And one of the provisions they’re trying to include in that has to do with the succession plan. How, how can you create a succession plan where in the event of your incapacity or death, that someone can come in and pick up where you left off.

It’s a very, serious conversation to be having, but if we’re looking at it from the less morbid side of things. How do you expect to have moments where it doesn’t always require your involvement in the business? Like, ideally, somebody should be able to review the information that you have prepared and at the very least, piece together how to resolve the project.

There’s a reason why I don’t do payroll. I don’t want to be tied to my desk every two weeks. Right? Somebody has to be there to take the hours and push the button. It’s the same thing with all other, with all other aspects of the tax industry, right? If I’m always the one required to push the button, I’m never going to leave my desk , because I, I’m the only one who can push that button.

I’m the only one who can push it. So I think people really need to be looking at this from that perspective. And when you do try to grow or to scale and you don’t have some, some kind of standard operating procedure. And I’ve seen this time and time again. You just have all these staff members operating on their own and then there’s no consistency in what the client is going to experience in that case.

And, you know, if you have employee turnover, you know, and this is somewhat common in higher employee number firms, they get moved to someone else. And guess what? This person does it completely differently. And now the client’s, I have no clue what happened here. 

Jamie Gruol: I want to add to that too. Like, even if the client doesn’t get moved to someone else, it’s just, for example, like, say you take different deposit amount for every client, like, based on this, complex, rubrics that you’ve came

Jessica Smith: Mm hmm.

Jamie Gruol: Like our new client who’s on their second year who, you know, we still don’t trust entire But if you take a different amount of deposit for every client, when it comes to going and actually like sending out that final invoice. You have to go and literally do investigation on what type of client is this? What amount should they have? What is my, like the final billable amount and what deposit did they like?

You have to do and spend time on those steps because you didn’t standardize it to one set policy, right?

Jessica Smith: Mm hmm.

Jamie Gruol: that three, four minutes, it doesn’t seem like a lot, but every time you do that for your 200 clients, that’s 800 minutes. Like that’s a lot of hours. That’s 12 hours.

Jessica Smith: Yes.

Jamie Gruol: every Friday off or every Friday afternoon off for half, you know, two or three weeks.

Like that’s huge. And when it comes to like finding efficiency. So I just wanted to add that as an example, because I think you’re so right. That the standardization is of an operating procedure, like there’s a reason people are always talking about SOPs, but you have to also have systems in place

Jessica Smith: Mm hmm.

Jamie Gruol: SOPs that almost give you, it’s like when you go bullying and they pull up the boundaries for the barriers for your kids so they can actually hit the pins. Systems act like that. Tools like TaxDome and practice management tools are intended to give , your people the boundary to say, Nope, you’re bumping into the edge. We got to go back this way. Right. And it helps to support what you’re talking about.

Jessica Smith: like, I love Baskin Robbins and the 31 flavors, but do you think I, I, do I roll through all 31 and try to find one that I like? No, I have the one that I like, and that’s what I stick with. And, you know, we don’t need to have that limited of a mindset when it comes to this, but, you know, you think about decision fatigue.

And too many options being presented and how that can just, it can get out of control very, very quickly. and what I’ve seen even in more recent experiences with, you know, with SOPs is when there’s a breakdown in something that was supposed to happen, the first thing that comes to mind is what is the SOP for this?

And where it was, where do we deviate from that? If you can’t do that, you are going to spend. Countless hours . Just investigating like what happened in this scenario, right? Because you don’t have this standard operating procedure for how you approach that situation at least every single time.

Jamie Gruol: Yeah. So I think the other thing about manual procedures and I had a call with a team that’s looking at TaxDome the other day, and they wanted to pick my brain about , the specific things that they needed in their practice. And so we got on the phone, I was like, so tell me about your system.

And they were like, well, we’re still using an Excel spreadsheet to track our clients. We are still using paper folders to pass their documents around the practice. When you start thinking about a virtual practice. Like you get to eliminate so much of the human failures that can come from manual systems.

Jessica Smith: hmm

Jamie Gruol: back when you were with the the larger firm before you started your practice and your firm, were helping them to start thinking about operationalizing

Jessica Smith: Mm hmm.

Jamie Gruol: the processes there. Can you walk us through like very high level, like what that looked like for you as somebody trying to implement that?

Because I’m sure there’s a lot of practice owners or managers, like operations managers that are like, I don’t even know where to start. So like, can you just talk kind of high level to the firm that’s using Excel, still taking paper? Maybe has a portal, but not everybody’s using it kind of situation,

Jessica Smith: So the biggest thing was there was no base level training for new hires so had come in and I had created like an official training program kind of like what I thought were was the The appropriate steps to get someone ready to be able to perform certain amounts of work. And so the interesting thing was like, it was developed.

It was good. It was loved by management. And then they’re like, okay, well, we’re not going to let you do this. We’re going to give this to the attorneys. And then what we’re going to do is we’re going to sit. seven or eight attorneys and with all these legal interns and they’re going to train them. And

Jamie Gruol: which means you have seven or eight different ideas of what that process actually looks like,

Jessica Smith: the attorneys didn’t do the work the legal interns were going to do. I was doing the work the legal interns were going to do. So they got improper training and the unfortunate side effect of that was they were reprimanded when the expectation of the final work product did not meet what the requirement was and They’re they only went based off what their training was and so I had honestly tons of interns like they would sneak into my office when no one was looking and they would be crying about like how difficult, you know, this was and I was like, let me see what the project was.

And they’d give me the project. I’m like, oh, okay. Well, here’s how we do this. Start here. You want to do this? You want to do this? And then when you get to that point, let me know what happens. And then. Being able to take the better information, they were able to turn out much better work product, but that was a huge breakdown , in a really critical part of bringing on a new hire.

They had this training program that they all like love, but they didn’t want me to teach them and they ended up coming to me anyway to be taught. And so after a certain number of months of them realizing, gosh, like these interns really aren’t progressing, like maybe we should let Jessica do it.

And guess what? It worked like they let me do it and it worked. And, and, and, and people were, you know, were happier with what the work product was turning out. But it’s, it took. It took someone to say, I am willing to do this and to sit down and think, say, here’s how I think that we need to put this together.

It was, it was time consuming, but to create kind of like that manual on like, okay, well, here’s, here’s how you use the phone and here’s how you access this software. And here’s who’s responsible for this and, and being able to lay out some of those expectations so that now it wasn’t just these, you know, brand new baby legal students trying to figure out like, All the stuff that they had to do with, with the, the training from the people who aren’t even doing that work.

They, it just, , it was a breakdown. And so, I think there’s a lot to be said about being able to standardize your processes because you want them to be utilized hypothetically or ideally by someone else at some point so that there’s a consistency of service there.

Jamie Gruol: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And I think to like, having the standardization it presents operationally opportunities to streamline things,

Jessica Smith: Mm hmm.

Jamie Gruol: improve things, right? Like when you have that documented, If everybody’s doing it differently, it’s chaos in the mix,

Jessica Smith: Yeah.

Jamie Gruol: can actually see where an opportunity lies you know, thinking about like technology and tax dome, one of the interesting things, a lot of people come into our program and they’re like, I want to go a hundred percent virtual, like get me the freedom.

I want to move to France. We have Chris who’s moving to move to France because she was able to implement. A fully virtual practice and still work with our clients in the States. But one of the things that, you know, we have a lot of people come in and, they’re like, I still have this like legacy set of clients that I still need to serve in person.

They’re going to drop off documents. I want to assure people that when you’re looking at things like Jessica’s talking about, like when you can get your team onto a standard process where this type of client, like art, we have our virtual clients and then we still have these paper clients.

For

Jessica Smith: Mm hmm.

Jamie Gruol: you’re able to then. those two groups of clients without getting really specific and breaking your standard.

Jessica Smith: Mm hmm.

Jamie Gruol: we prepare a tax return, right? Like that’s high level. This is what we do, how we get the documents may change, right? Just like the car coming off the battery line.

One may be black and one may be red, but the car itself is still the same and the end result is still the same for the client. They have a completed proper, Properly completed and correct. That’s the word I’m looking for. Correct tax return that they get at the end that

Jessica Smith: Exactly.

Jamie Gruol: get all the pieces. But that input that comes from the client changes. And so I wanted to share that one of the big takeaways that one of our clients shared with us recently is she, because she has these paper clients was celebrating because their front office is no longer filled with paper Folders because what they do is the client brings the documents in her front staff admin person is there with a high speed scanner.

Jessica Smith: Mm hmm.

Jamie Gruol: in there. And in five minutes, the client walks out with their documents so that they don’t have the risk of keeping the documents in place. It then feeds the client back into the factory line of preparing the return so that the review of the documents, the drafting of the return, the manager review, all of those internal pieces, still continue in the exact same way that they were expecting every single time resulting in that consistent output, as you called it. And the client doesn’t know any different about the background. They’re still thinking, Oh, great. I’m getting my paper documents dropped off and in a couple of weeks and follow the system I’ve always known. But your virtual clients no longer have to do that if they don’t want to, right? And so they’re going through the organizer, they’re uploading the documents to the beautiful client app or the mobile app.

And I just want to like assure that if you’re like, but I have these like clients that it doesn’t mean you can’t still create efficiencies and remove the manual, Pushing of paper, pushing of documents through the firm, storing them, doing all the things that a lot of people are warned by and are causing them to have challenges.

And as that legacy client pool shrinks through attrition or, you know, unfortunately passing, you

Jessica Smith: hmm. Mm

Jamie Gruol: time as clients ends. You can just continue filling the virtual pool so you can bring in more flexibility, more freedom, more profitability, all the things that come from, filling back, filling the client roles.

So I’m curious how you look at that as your. You’re a fully virtual

Jessica Smith: Mm hmm.

Jamie Gruol: today, but as you were kind of making that mindset shift from the old firm that was very manual to your own firm, how did you like, what was the lens you were looking through at the processes you knew and how you were translating that into a virtual world?

Jessica Smith: Well, I mean, I think my level of comfort with technology is going to be different from others and it’s okay to, like I always, every time I have a training, I always tell people, don’t emulate your practice off of how you think I’m running mine because my, I’m like so many things that I don’t ever make it to fruition.

Like, I Like to break my system. I like to test it, like to bring it to, and sometimes it’s, I’m like, Ooh, that was a terrible idea. And I scrap it. And, but that’s because I have a comfort level with the technology that allows me to do so without like fear of like, Oh, all my clients are going to leave me. If you are uncomfortable, I would never recommend to go 100 percent in your first year, like balls to the wall automate.

It’s because you are going to be so overwhelmed and you’re not going to know the tool well enough to fix the problems when they arise. So my biggest piece of advice on that is look at the things that could bring you the highest level of efficiency with the least amount of resistance, e signatures or engagement letters.

Every person that walks this earth, I promise you, at some point, probably has done an e signature of some sort. That’s just where a lot of this is going. So, implementing, getting out your engagement letters, and having them e signed, you know, in the capacity how we suggest you set it up, where it can be done in mass, and it can be done, thousands at a time.

 That’s a significant time saver. I would say that could be a very simple entry level process to adopt. Second to that would be getting that deposit up front and stop accepting payments in full when the return has been completed. If you can’t get to 100 percent pay, pay up front because you have a process that requires you to obviously see the difficulty of the return, then at least come to an impasse and come up with a minimum fee that you can collect from everybody up front.

And implement that and then just work into the workflows that the remaining balance is paid, you know, prior to the final approval of the return. I think that those 2 things are probably the most impactful if I was just trying to give somebody like a little bit of an introduction. To what this looks like, obviously, with the client portal, it’s a great document sharing tool.

And I don’t think that the document sharing is overwhelming for a lot of people because it seems to be like scanning and emailing is like kind of like normal. And since I don’t want anybody to send me anything through email, having the document sharing within the tax dome portal works, really well for me.

But you absolutely don’t have to go 100% Into the automations realm because that I think will be a lot more overwhelming if this is like entirely new for you I’ve been in the game long enough that I will play and break and, mistakes happen and, we apologize and we move on.

But if you were going to start, I think those are the most impactful pieces , of TaxDome specifically, of a tool that can work for you and you can get the most bang for your buck out of it.

Jamie Gruol: Yeah, I agree. And I want to also, encourage people if you were very tech , wary that is definitely a great suggestion. I also want to tell the person who is comfortable with tech You know, open to change that is ready to find a better way of working. Don’t be afraid either to invest time and energy into learning how a tool works fully.

Right? When a lot of people do find tax dome or find any other practice management tool there, they kind of dip their toe in the water

Jessica Smith: Mm hmm. Mm

Jamie Gruol: become. Immersed in how it works and they don’t see it as the next best hire that they’ve have, and they don’t see it for what it truly can do as far as ROI.

We had somebody the other day that was, you know, voicing concern about the cost of her software and how Taxdome is the highest cost in her

Jessica Smith: hmm.

Jamie Gruol: And the thing I replied was, yes, but if you didn’t have Taxdome. Doing these automations in the back end and reminding the

Jessica Smith: Yep.

Jamie Gruol: the emails and sending the chats and all the things that TaxDome is doing for you and your team, you would be paying somebody to do that for

Jessica Smith: Yes.

Jamie Gruol: Right. And so when you, you know, when people start looking at investing into a software that can really be a team member and the heart of their practice, they need to actually treat it like that. They need to respect the tool as that, because it can only get better. Do that for you if you look at it as that critical role in your practice. And so, don’t look at it as just like the quick fix of a portal and needing to be secure and have things in one place. That is definitely what it can do. But I want to just say, please, if you’re going to invest into it, like fully invest into it and allow it to be the game changing tool that it can really be.

Jessica Smith: And don’t be afraid of implementers because a lot of these tools nowadays. They’re custom, they’re so highly customizable implementers and I’ve seen this come across a lot more that we’re, you know, implementers are going to gain more traction. It is our literal goal to make sure you use this to its maximum efficiency.

If you are not working with an implementer, it’s very, , we see it in our program a lot. You’re going to miss some of the really important stuff that you need to know to master that tool to really, really make it work for you there’s a huge ROI. There really is. I know this tool so well, you know, when a lot of people are giving us feedback on like issues that they’re running into, it’s not always the fix that they think it’s going to be.

Sometimes there’s another way that it has to be done. And knowing the appropriate way to again, hack the system is only going to help you in the long run. So don’t be afraid of having to have an implementer. You know, these software developers are just that they develop the software. They say, here’s how we intend to use it.

But they aren’t practicing accountants and don’t be scared of implementers.

Jamie Gruol: More are they business owners,

Jessica Smith: Correct. Right.

Jamie Gruol: look at things through a very

Jessica Smith: Very different lenses. Yes.

Jamie Gruol: here’s the tool, my analogy, here’s a pen can write a paragraph. This pen can also write a New York Times bestseller when you work with somebody that knows how to write a New York Times bestseller, right?

Jessica Smith: That’s really cool. Yeah.

Jamie Gruol: So, You know, like, don’t, I think you have a great point, Jess, that the tool is a tool until you know what it can actually do. And we know what it can do because we’ve seen it happen in a thousand practices.

Jessica Smith: Mm hmm.

Jamie Gruol: Yeah, I appreciate that. I want to talk just to wrap things up today. You were talking about, you know, with a team and needing to have SOPs and all the standardization.

I wanted to close this out with a little bit of a story of one of our clients, just because to me, it’s, It represents the power of a tool like tax. I mean, it’s actually, I have two client examples. One is a solo practitioner who came to us. It was her second career. She got her business up. She had great success. All of a sudden she was maxed out on hours. She was, you know, making enough, but she wasn’t like, she just was maxed out on hours and she needed to not work as much as she was working. So she got tax dome and she came and joined us and she learned how to implement our systems. And when she did that, she actually, her name’s Allison, and she did that, she was able to double her client capacity. As a solo practitioner,

Jessica Smith: That’s insane.

Jamie Gruol: able to double her client capacity while actually working less.

Jessica Smith: Mm hmm.

Jamie Gruol: this is the power of automation and the power of efficiencies that eliminating the manual things she was doing, because she came from a large firm. And so she knew the importance of status email.

Jessica Smith: Mm hmm.

Jamie Gruol: of knew the importance of client communication, and she was doing all of that manually. And by eliminating that manual work, she was able to do that for herself. Work less and make twice as much. I mean, come on.

Jessica Smith: I can’t think of a better success story. Like , when you really start to look at the results like that, I mean, it’s, that’s incredible.

Jamie Gruol: Huge. And the other one that came to mind was our, one of our clients, Eddie, he and his wife. So it was the two of them and they were running their practice. They have 800 So they had a lot of

Jessica Smith: It’s a lot of clients for two people. Hmm.

Jamie Gruol: he was using tax dome. I believe he was using tax dome. I may get that little detail wrong, but he was using a tool to manage his clients, but his clients were coming in and he was meeting with them.

He was holding an interview with them and he was gathering the information on the return and then he would go and prepare the return. But what he was finding is he was missing the actual detail of what he needed to

Jessica Smith: Mm hmm.

Jamie Gruol: complete and correct return. And so he was ending up having to go back to his clients a lot.

And so when he found tax down, he also signed up for workflows and we helped him implement the the automations. But the powerful one for him was the organizer because he was able to have clients fill out the organizer, give him the details of their tax year, and he was able to then prepare a complete return without all the back and forth that he was having to do because he was missing out on these important details that they were telling him in the past.

But he was, , he was. Trying to do the return and take notes and you know, your human brain can only keep up so

Jessica Smith: You’re gonna mitigate a lot of risk with, with a plan, a tool like that.

Jamie Gruol: huge, huge. And so what their goal was is they wanted to work smarter, not harder, is what he came to us initially. And what they found is they were actually able, I think they increased their profit by 30 percent because they were. Able to bring on more clients and they were also not having to hire the admin they thought they were going to have to hire.

So they were able to keep their profit higher because they didn’t, they were just using the tool to be that admin for them and gather the details, do the reminders and all the things that he needed to preserve those 800 clients between just he and his wife. And so, you know, again, I just wanted to share another example of how a small firm, you know, is able to take those standardized workflows. And to your point with the CERT 230 stuff now, because all of that is in one place, their workflows are technically documented in the tax dome system. They can have SOPs in their tasks like we have modeled in the program. They don’t have to worry about that continuity planning because if he was to get sick, his wife could step in.

If Allison was to get sick, they could find somebody to step in and contract to finish out the tax prep for her. Because It’s all right there. And it’s a very scripted expectation of what needs to happen step by step. And that, you know, it brings a huge peace of mind to them, but also has helped the bottom line of the business and, know, their lifestyles, frankly.

Jessica Smith: And didn’t Elise just have a baby, like, a few months ago?

Jamie Gruol: Yes they

Jessica Smith: Yeah.

Jamie Gruol: sure that having TaxDome has been very

beneficial in 

Jessica Smith: Yep. Yep. I can attest to that.

Jamie Gruol: So, yeah, so, I love those kinds of stories where, you know, you get to see the true real life impact that, properly functioning tools can have in, in a small practice. So, well, Jess, do you have any last words of wisdom for somebody who is. Given a lot of great stuff, but just like takeaways for somebody that’s in the paper manual mode and looking to make that shift this year.

Jessica Smith: It’s never too late to start. It really isn’t. , I, I know a lot of people probably would feel a little bit of concern trying to implement something even right now during the tax season. And I, I understand that. You know, my thought process is if you can at least get through this first deadline, don’t hesitate to even start working on something so that you can make improvements for, the following year and start to even test them a little bit with some of those straggler, you know, straggling clients that you have.

I think there’s a lot to be said in, the people who wait too long, right? If we’re going to take a cue from ourselves and ask our clients not to wait to provide their documents to us, there is no reason why we should be not taking our own advice and actively. Starting the process of, of improving the firm efficiency and embracing technology.

There’s, it’s, it’s progressing so quickly. The more that it that you wait to adopt it, there is going to be slightly higher learning curve because you’re now going to have. multiple pieces and you have a really significant amount of things that you have to learn. So it’s never too late to start, but I, I always say the sooner the better cause you’re going to see the benefit.

You’re going to see the benefit.

Jamie Gruol: I think the one thing that our clients often say is, I wish I had started sooner

Jessica Smith: Yep. I agree.

Jamie Gruol: no escaping it. It’s got to happen. And the, the sooner the better, and if you want to, if you need help, you know, where to find us in the below this episode, but we just love what we get to do and the lives we get to change through this work.

 And we love feeding back into people and helping them. Make it success. That’s just lights us up for sure. Well, Jess, thank you so much for sharing. Your thoughts on today’s topic. It’s always great to get to riff with you on these calls and join us again for the next episode, guys. We would love to, to tell, share more about small practice operations, diary of tax practice owner. We love getting to serve you guys. So if you have ideas to, , Drop us an email. Hello at workflows for tax pros dot com. We would love to hear your ideas on things you would like us to talk about, challenges you’re having, and we can come up with some solutions for you.

Jessica Smith: Absolutely.

Jamie Gruol: All right. Thank you all for being here. We’ll see you next

Jessica Smith: Bye.